May 10 2008, 9:41 am - Replied by: RandPhoenix

....Dude... Yes, it is Jesus' followers who will see eternal life.  But all who are His WILL BE KEPT HIS.  That's the good news!

 

The promise of the New Covenant in Ezekiel 36 and Jeremiah 31 is not that we will be sinless, but that God will forgive our sins and give us a new heart.  And He will CONTINUE to forgive our sins!  Even after regeneration. 

May 11 2008, 10:53 am - Replied by: endtimesProphet

ALwAySaJOY wrote: I have a question for you... Do you have children and if you do... if and when they ever do something that they shouldn't... have you ever told them "You're not mine?". And by the way... It's not "My" scripture you're destroying!!! (disecting)

The answer is =Satan was a Son of God is he still a son and were is he going.
If we dont obey God he forsakes us 2 Chron. 15:2 (KJV) 
    And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

Jeremiah 23:33 (KJV) 
    And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the Lord? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the Lord.

Jeremiah 23:39 (KJV) 
    Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:

 

May 11 2008, 10:55 am - Replied by: endtimesProphet

RandPhoenix wrote: ....Dude... Yes, it is Jesus' followers who will see eternal life.  But all who are His WILL BE KEPT HIS.  That's the good news!   The promise of the New Covenant in Ezekiel 36 and Jeremiah 31 is not that we will be sinless, but that God will forgive our sins and give us a new heart.  And He will CONTINUE to forgive our sins!  Even after regeneration.

Will you please show me scripture were he keeps forgiving us of our future sins once we are born again.
The problem with covenant is that you dont understand it.
The New Covenant that you are  referring to is not a newly created covenant its a old one with more promises added such as the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues of fire which came at Pentacost for all that believe.Most who have been saved dont believe in it and walk in the gifts of healing, miracles and speaking in tongues of fire. Pentacost was not the born again experiance but the fulfillment of a promise to all believers that they could have that power.
Back to the New Covenant the hebrew word for New in
Jeremiah 31:31-34 (KJV)   Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:            &nb sp;                         &nb sp;                         &nb sp;                         &nb sp;                         &nb sp;                         &nb sp;                         &nb sp;                         &nb sp;                         &nb sp;      This word New don’t mean Newly created but rather [new- Hebrew Word: ‏חָדַשׁ‎   Transliteration: ḥādash: khaw-dash'  a primitive root; to be new; causative to rebuild :- renew, repair]  So Jesus was renewing the Covenant made with Abraham.
which is eternal

Genesis 17:7-8 (KJV)  And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant,  to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.עוֹלָם‎—: o-lawm'   properly concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future).So this Covenant is Eternal for the seed of Abraham or the Children of Faith Jew and Gentile.

So what was the Covenant Genesis 17:1 (KJV) And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 

same as today   Matthew 5:48 (KJV) 
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
What is perfection ?
Col. 3:14 (KJV) 
    And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Love
same old and new Mark 12:30 (KJV) 
    And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Who does he keep covenant with

Deut. 7:9 (KJV)      Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

All saints were born again the same way old and new looking to the cross.

1 Cor. 10:4     And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
So they were saved looking toward the cross

John 3:5-6 (KJV)  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

“Proving that at this time and before men were born of water and spirit.” [6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spiritJohn 3:10 (KJV)  Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?  Nicodemus should have understood that one must be born again by faith unto righteousness unto the Messiah/Jesus. We see the Holy spirit living in David in Psalm 51:11-12 (KJV)  Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. [12] Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.We see the Holy spirit was in him “Moses” and  in his people the Jews in  Isaiah 63:11 (KJV)    Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?   If we study the Old and New Testament for the words The Spirit of the Lord came upon we see that the word came upon is a mistranslation and truly means    haw-yaw'; a primitive root [compare Hebrew 1933 (hava')]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary) :- beacon, × altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, × have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, × use.

the Law didnt save a flea.

Galatians 3:17 (KJV)      And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ,"Abrahamic " the law, "Moses" which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Romans 4:14 (KJV)      For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Why did God bring the Law

Galatians 3:19 (KJV)      Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. The Law was added because of Transgression of Love faith unto righteousness.Israel broke covenant with Yahweh and didn’t walk in faith unto  rigorousness. The covenant “be thou perfect”was for all the seed of Abraham and they had to keep it to receive it same as today.

So who is under the Law.
1 Tim. 1:9 (KJV) 
    Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

So if you are disobedient you are under the Law boy thats tough.You have put yourself under the Law and all it will bring is eternal death.
The wages of sin is death/eternal death
Titus 1:16 (KJV) 
    They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Have fun

 

May 11 2008, 11:47 am - Replied by: endtimesProphet

ALwAySaJOY wrote: I have a question for you... Do you have children and if you do... if and when they ever do something that they shouldn't... have you ever told them "You're not mine?". And by the way... It's not "My" scripture you're destroying!!! (disecting)

No Im sorry its your unnderstanding of that scripture.
I dont see you commenting on the truth I just gave you please do so and be free to give me more of the scriptures in which you believe once saved always saved unconditionaly so I can refute it as well with Gods help..

May 11 2008, 5:58 pm - Replied by: RandPhoenix

Dude, I'm shaking the dust off my feet.  You have no clue what you're talking about.

May 11 2008, 10:07 pm - Replied by: ALwAySaJOY

endtimesProphet wrote: I personally have no sin I have repented of mine and I am obedient.

Since when isn't self righteousness a sin?

May 12 2008, 6:44 am - Replied by: endtimesProphet

RandPhoenix wrote: Dude, I'm shaking the dust off my feet.  You have no clue what you're talking about.

The dust you are shaking off your feet dould be the last chance you have for the truth.
If I dont know what Im talking about refute scripture that I have posted .Dont just run the mouth  if you can refute it do it if not repent .

May 12 2008, 6:50 am - Replied by: endtimesProphet

ALwAySaJOY wrote: endtimesProphet wrote: I personally have no sin I have repented of mine and I am obedient. Since when isn't self righteousness a sin?

By your standards no one can si who has been saved.
Im not self righteous Ive been cleansed by the Blood and if I do sin I repent.
It seems to me that you people are good at running the mouth but cannot prove what you say.
I havent seen you refute anything and I have refuted everything the two of you have thrown out.
I suggest you throw out some more or concede that you are wrong and repent because of all the ones you have convinced of this lie that have or will burn in Hell.

May 12 2008, 12:33 pm - Replied by: Explicit_Faith

RandPhoenix wrote: Yay for not answering the Scriptures!  I asked what Jesus meant by "It is finished"?

Without getting into the middle of the debate/argument that is going on between two of our members I would like to respond to THIS question.

Let's look at the verse where this statement occurs. Out of the 4 gospels, we find it word for word only in John.

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

The key here is that He said this just before He handed His Spirit to God. Let's compare Matthew and Mark.

Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Mar 15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

Neither of these other 2 gospels use the words IT IS FINISHED, however, they both say that Jesus cried with a loud voice before giving up his Spirit. What else did Jesus cry loudly from the cross?

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mar 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Both Matthew and Mark point us to what Christ really meant by IT IS FINISHED. Now I have heard over the years many interpretations of why Jesus would ask God about forsaking Him. In my heart I could never believe that God would forsake His Son. None of the "explanations" made sense. BUT, given that we serve a loving God and Father, what would Jesus mean by this forsaking? He was quoting David!

Jesus often taught by quoting scripture from the Old Testament. Let's turn now to Psalm 22, the crucifiction psalm.

Psa 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Psa 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

Psa 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

Psa 22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

Psa 22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

Psa 22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

Psa 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Psa 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

Psa 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

Psa 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Psa 22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

Psa 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Psa 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

Psa 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

Psa 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

Psa 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

Psa 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

Psa 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

Psa 22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

Psa 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.

Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

Psa 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

Our Lord loves us so much that He was teaching even while being crucified! The words of this Psalm would point to those witnesses of His crucifiction that they were witnessing prophesy fulfilled right in front of them! Let's return now to the gospel of John.

Joh 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

Joh 19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Praise God for the fact that He loved us enough to send His Son to pay this awesome price, and that His Son loved us enough to teach us even while being crucified! May God bless you all!

May 12 2008, 12:40 pm - Replied by: RandPhoenix

So only prophecy was finished?  That doesn't make sense either. 

And as to your idea of the Father forsaking His Son, look at Isaiah 53:10.  It says plainly that it pleased the Lord to crush the Messiah.  The word for crush means "grind into powder" or "destroy."  This is clearly stating that the Father killed the Son.  Not only this, but Romans 3:25 calls Jesus a propitiation, which means the satisfaction and turning away of wrath.  Which means that Jesus bore the wrath of God on the cross for our sins.