Apr 21 2008, 9:44 pm - By endtimesProphet

Once saved always saved refu



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Once saved always saved refu

May 08 2008, 8:23 am - Replied by: RandPhoenix

Then I guess we're all going to Hell.  Sucks to be us.

May 08 2008, 8:08 pm - Replied by: endtimesProphet

No not all just the Sinner and disobedient.
Read if you can refute it then you will be the first.
But you will not be able to refute it so then you had better make sure you are without sin.Just Repent

May 09 2008, 8:11 am - Replied by: RandPhoenix

lol.  Dude, way to set up the argument in advance. 

 

ALL are sinners.  ALL.  Without exception.  If one sin can send you to Hell, then you and I are both going.  

When Jesus said "It is Finished," did He mean it or not?  

May 09 2008, 8:37 am - Replied by: RandPhoenix

So far, to refute this website would be a waste of my time.  This is argued so poorly that it's hard to take seriously.

May 09 2008, 4:14 pm - Replied by: endtimesProphet

The fact is you cannot refute this teaching.
I personally have no sin I have repented of mine and I am obedient.
Unless we are obedient we dont have a true revelation of Gods word and if we were obedient we wouldnt be having this conversation.
John 14:23 (KJV) 
    Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 14:21 (KJV) 
    He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

If you would like to give 10 scriptures that you beleive one cannot loose there salvation then I will help you and refute them if not then so be it.

May 09 2008, 8:15 pm - Replied by: RandPhoenix

Yay for not answering the Scriptures!  I asked what Jesus meant by "It is finished"?

 

I remember something about 1 John saying that if we say we have no sin, we lie and the truth is not in is... But hey, who needs the Bible when you're sinless, yeah?  

May 09 2008, 11:02 pm - Replied by: endtimesProphet

RandPhoenix wrote: Yay for not answering the Scriptures!  I asked what Jesus meant by "It is finished"?   I remember something about 1 John saying that if we say we have no sin, we lie and the truth is not in is... But hey, who needs the Bible when you're sinless, yeah?

The Greek Word

oo; also (before a vowel) ouk, ook; and (before an aspirate) ouch, ookh; a primary word; the absolute negative [compare Greek 3361 (me)] adverb; no or not :- + long, nay, neither, never, no (Ă— man), none, [can-] not, + nothing, + special, un ([-worthy]), when, + without, + yet but. See also Greek 3364 (ou me), Greek 3372 (mekos).
So if we say we have not sinned we would be a liar.
By the way How many Liars are going to Heaven
If you knew about the feast of passover then you would know by what is meant by
it is finished.

Jesus was just fulfilling the passover as it was practiced.
What Covenant were the Old Testament saints Born again under?
What covenant are we born again under?

May 10 2008, 8:19 am - Replied by: ALwAySaJOY

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
28  I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

May 10 2008, 8:31 am - Replied by: endtimesProphet

ALwAySaJOY wrote: John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28  I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

We are finaly on our way to the truth hang in there and all your scriptures will be destroyed.
 I can see that you have left out a Key scripture which would put things into context. We must examine Jn. 10:27 carefully to understand who "them" and "they" are in verse 28 and what the Lord was saying. It reads, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they FOLLOW me." This is the only type of person, the one that meets these conditions, that will "NEVER PERISH," according to vs 29. Lets look at John 10:27-29 (KJV)      My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: Those that follow him or those that obey him hear his voice[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. We can see with a small amount of scholarship, that this verse can be made so everyone can understand what it is saying . First We must go to the Greek text, the hearing  ak-oo'-o; a primary verb; to hear (in various senses) :- give (in the) audience (of), come (to the ears), ([shall]) hear (-er, -ken), be noised, be reported, understand. present tense and following  ak-ol-oo-theh'-o; from Greek 1 (a) (as a particle of union) and keleuthos (a road); properly to be in the same way with, i.e. to accompany (specially as a disciple) :- follow, reach. present tense Both are in the present tense. So what does this mean? The truth is that only those who are hearing and following Jesus Christ right now are his sheep. "they follow me"? The word translated "follow" is a PRESENT INDICATIVE ACTIVE in the Greek, which asserts something which is occurring while the speaker is making the statement. In other words, as long as we remain faithful and CONTINUE to follow Jesus, He will, indeed, assure us that we will "never perish," v.28. No such promise, however, is given here (or anywhere in the Bible) to one that would turn and start "to follow Satan" as Paul knew could and did happen (1 Tim. 5:15)! It clearly does NOT cover such. Some read into Jn. 10:28  the words, "under any circumstance" after the words "never perish," but they are NOT there! Jesus did NOT include them in his promise and neither should we!The word is plain we see that sin separates us from that relationship with God in Isaiah 59:2 (KJV) But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.  Those that are living in a state of continual sin are not his sheep because they are neither hearing nor following Jesus. Nor can he hear them “unless they Repent” Who are secure? The sheep that are following his word. These cannot be snatched (taken away by force)? The sheep Who are being obedient to Jesus giving (present tense) have eternal life? Only those who are hearing and following right now! Whom do Jesus and the Father protect in their hands? Not the one that heard and followed for a period of time such was the case with many of his disciples, John 6:66 (KJV) From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked  no more with him We must ask ourselves Who are Jesus Disciples. Jesus says John 8:31 (KJV) Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;                       &nb sp;    So only those who are actively believing now with an obedient faith. Is this not works? No! It is genuine faith! This is true biblical security.            &nb sp;                         &nb sp;  The term "snatch" means  har-pad'-zo; from a derivative of Greek 138 (haireomai); to seize (in various applications) :- catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).  This promise guarantees that the devil cannot remove the believer which is  (present tense) from the hand of God. This safety is only from forces outside the believer and God Himself. A backslider removes himself from the promises of safety and security. He is not removed against his own will.            &nb sp;                         &nb sp;                         &nb sp;                         &nb sp;                     Now, looking at this passage in its plain and obvious meaning, it renders no credence to the theory of UES. Another chief pillar of this doctrine has been destroyed! Now lets go to the remaining pillars that  groan under the weight to save this failed doctrine.  Also-This scripture don’t say that we cannot walk away from that hand?

May 10 2008, 8:57 am - Replied by: ALwAySaJOY

I have a question for you...
Do you have children and if you do... if and when they ever do something that they shouldn't... have you ever told them "You're not mine?".
And by the way... It's not "My" scripture you're destroying!!! (disecting)