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May 13 2006, 10:11 pm - By gothicpunkchristian1
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Matthew 5:31-32
"31. It has also been said, Whoever divorces his wife, must give her a certificate of divorce. 32. But i tell you, Whoever dismisses and repudiates and divorces his wife, except on the grounds of unfaithfulness (sexual immorality), causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a woman who has been divorced commits adultry."[Deut. 24:1-4]
does that mean that you can't divorce a man that's beating you and if you're divorced and remarry that you commit adultery? I'm not questioning the Bible, I just don't understand... Someone plz reply to this i want to know... and also i'm kinda embarrassed to ask this but i have really never been taught this (or i was little and wasn't really listening) but what does Blasphemy mean?
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| The Struggle Between Life and Christ | |
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May 14 2006, 12:34 am - Replied by: christs_warrior
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Hey whats up i wanted to help answer some of your questions first blasphemy is an evil acy against god usually its calling god evil or saying something that is a complete lie and contradiction to god but it can come in a few diffirent forms like a man can clam to be god and that is blasphemy;the relegious leaders of Jesus day called him a blasphemer cause jesus clamed to be god Jn10:33 but they where the blaspemers cause they where rejecting gods son and calling him a mere man.And as for the marriage one thats a good one i think the important thing as a christian is to be patient and make sure you end up with a godly man that will never do that to you but as for advice for some one stuck in that situation the bible says divorce and an unbeleiver that leaves is the only reason for divorce but god does hate a man who does not take care of his family god says a man who does not provide for his family is worse than a non beleiver so(and god forgive me if im wrong) im sure god would give certain amount of grace to a person that needed to get out of a situation that was causeing there walk with god to be disrupted but scripture is a little unclear in this area but it might be that a divorce from that person is wrong but god will obviously forgive them if they asked for it and as for remarriage they might possible only have commited adultery once at the act of remarriage and that the entire marriage might not be adultery. here is a site i use alot for my bible questions i got some info of this site to try and help you they are not always right but they come close almost all the time here is the site www.gotquestions.org/
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| Jesus take me home | |
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May 14 2006, 4:05 am - Replied by: LoveBob
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If a husband is beating his wife...then the wife should call the police, file a report, and have him arested for assault. No matter how much a wife may say she loves him to do that, its more like shes afraid of either what he will do later, or what other people will say. And if it happens at a constent, then the husband is not looking to stop untill someone will stop him.
Then she should talk to her pastor, or a counsler about what she should do about the husband, and the situation. Weather diviorce is an option, or maybe the husband can be brought to Christ.
If the husband is a Christian, then she should still call the police. And after he has cooled off, she should have the husband (and her if nesassary, or if she pleases) meet with the pastor of thier church. And the pastor will decied to bring it before the congregation, or another cause of action.
If the husband is not a Christian, and she is thinking "that takes too long, and i want answers/action now". She should ask herself what her motives are (you may think DUH she wants to stop being beat!). But as Christians are we not always being made fun of? Or persecuted? And that God has sent his only son to DIE, not strike a bargin, but for our sins. And we worry about the time it takes to save one person. A person that she married in love. When Jesus spent his life, from birth to death, to teach, love, influence, and above all, save as many people as possible. Should we not do the same? Not just for those we love, but for all.
So if your asking this question; for yourself, a friend, or just common curiosity. Then divorce is almost like the last resort. If the husband does not come around, then divorce. At least thats my thoughts on the matter.
love bob
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| Losers of the world unite!! Why am i all alone on this one? | |
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May 14 2006, 1:21 pm - Replied by: Gina
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Please read "A New Life of Faith" under the forum of testimonials. God can change lives. If you want to ask me any questions after that please send me a message.
In Christ, G_Mac
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May 14 2006, 7:46 pm - Replied by: Ilovemysailor
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I have struggled with this issue myself. I was married back in '93. After 2 yrs. the abuse started, not just physical but emotional. Then came the drugs and alcohol, and soon all that lead to adultry. I left for awhile and was in couseling with my pastor, my ex would not go. I tried going back and giving it another chance. I went in with the stipulations of no more abuse of any kind, and asked for faithfullness. Well it did not last long. One night as I was pulling in the the drive and going in, I could see before I got to the door he was sitting in the family room with his son(he had a son from a previous marriage)that was 3 at the time, smoking a bong with his son right next to him. I will say I totally responded in the flesh and lost it. I stayed for a short time and the messages on our home answering machine started coming from the girl he was cheating on me with. Well obviously that didn't stop. When confronted about it I was told it wasn't my business and then the abuse was worse than ever. Even to the point, and some may not say this is not possible if he was my husband, he was raping me. In my mind when someone, no matter whom, holds you down and your screaming to stop the entire time that is rape.
Well I finally left and trust me, I did a lot of wear on the knees of my pants from so much prayer. I truely believe, and i might be wrong, that God didn't want me to stay in a situation where my life truely was in danger. Also when i did all I could to make it work (counseling and such) I tried everything i could do to make it work but when someone is so bent on moving on with someone other than his spouse, what can ya do?I believe in my heart that I did the right thing or I would not be here today, litarally. I won't know if I was wrong until I am standing in front of my Lord.
I am remarried and that is when all the questions started. "Am I causing my husband to commit adultry?" I had many ask me if my divorce was before I was saved and if so than it's covered in the blood. But since i was saved before the divorce it isn't. Anyone got a clue how to explain that to me?
Any answers are welcome.
Thanks for the ear, or I guess I should say eyes since ur reading this.
Love and prayers
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| PLEASE LORD PUT YOUR ARM AROUND MY SHOULDER AND YOUR HAND OVER MY MOUTH!! | |
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Jun 01 2006, 3:34 pm - Replied by: TrueU
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Hey You guys.
This is a really interesting topic. I work for TrueU.org -- we're an online community for college students. We have a forum for students, and they're discussing stuff like this all the time. If you want to check out the Coffee Shop Forum, go to Student Lounge: Relationships and see what they're talking about in there.
Hope to see you there soon!
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| An online community for college students | |
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Jun 02 2006, 10:18 pm - Replied by: otmerhorn
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There is enough evidence in the Bible to show that it does not matter as much what I think on the subject but what God thinks.
Let me say this right off that the root of any divorce is sin and sin separates us from God and breaks our fellowship with Him. Will God forgive the sin of divorce? Of course He can and will:
(1 John 1:9 KJV) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
There is so much in that one short verse in the Bible that we could preach on it for years without exhausting its subject. The big condition is in the first word; "if". The word is so small but carries a lot of weight. God knows our mind; He knows whether we are sincere or not. If we are truly repentant and sincere in our confession of sin, then His Word says He will forgive us. The one great attribute of our God is that He is always faithful:
(2 Th 3:3 KJV) But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
The Old Testament sacrifices covered the sins of the people but the Blood of Jesus Christ takes it away (as if it was never there),
(1 Cor 6:11 KJV) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Many years ago, I stood before a group of men who were questioning me and proving my "gifts" to enter into the Gospel ministry. One of them men asked me that if they were not to grant my ordination, what would my course be.
I told them that I was just seeking their approval not their calling for God had already called me. I told them that I had no choice but to preach or face an Almighty God who called me into His ministry. His calling is true and having a letter of recommendation or certificate of ordination from them or the lack of same can not revoke the calling. God makes no mistakes. We may change and our testimony may be marred but God does not change or say "Uh Oh! I made a mistake!"
II Cor 3:3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
I had a disagreement several years ago with one local pastor who taught that divorce and remarriage was an "unpardonable sin". Since somewhere between sixty and ninety percent of his congregation had been divorced and had consequently remarried, he held it over their heads like a scepter.
He held to the scripture verses that Paul wrote to his (spiritual) son Timothy:
I Tim 3:3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
I told him that I agreed with that but what was he going to do with the verses that followed:
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
You see, I knew that his children never attended church and did not have a good reputation in the community. He accused me of meddling and said that his children had nothing to do with his ministering.
He gave me the paradox of saying that God may forgive the sin but that it "limits" the sinner's service for God. I told him that when God forgives a sin, it is forgotten.
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
I would hate to have it upon my conscience that I (even in spirit) denied anyone the opportunity to serve God. This certain minister said it was alright for the divorced person to minister just so they were not being "paid" to do so.
(1 Tim 6:10 KJV) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
It is up to the local church to say who they will call or will not call. It is up to the local church to say who will or will not preach behind their pulpit or in their sanctuary. I have no problem with that. The one thing that I do have a problem with is that one man can say he is a better person for a job, position or ministry because his sins are not as great as another's.
Divorce is a terrible and grave problem in today's world and our pastors and churches had better learn to minister to those who are suffering through the ordeal with love and compassion. If God takes you through a testing in your life, whether it be spiritual or physical, He will bring you through the trial better equipped to minister to those who will follow:
Ps 84:6 Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.
The word Baca means weeping and the tears fill pools that are able to relate to others who are going through the same problem, trial or sickness.
The question is: "Can God use such a person who has gone through a divorce and then remarries?"
There are churches who will not use a man if he has been divorced whether he is remarried or not. That is their choice.
There are other churches who will not use a minister who has been married, his wife died and then he remarried. That is their choice but I think it is silly.
But will God use such a person and is He ever in favor of divorce? The Word of God bears witness that He will and He is.
(1 Sam 13:14 KJV) ... the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people ...
That man was David and what a wonderful thing to be called a "man after God's own heart". But David was married to Michal, the daughter of Saul and to another that he had an "affair" with and then murdered her husband so that he could take her to wife. She was Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite. Did God make a mistake in calling David or does he know all of our hearts and knowing that none of us are any better than a lying, murderous adulterer?
Just look at the beautiful Psalms that David wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that has been used to bless us in so many days and ways. I would be hard pressed to remember a funeral service in which the Twenty-third Psalm was not read. Should we tear those verses from our Bibles and never use them again because of the life of the one who penned them?
Then there was the son of David and Bathsheba who was named Solomon. He had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines and God still used him to write Books of our Bible and to build the mighty Temple of God. What a blessing it is to know that if while we are the most vile of men that God can still use us in His ministry. Let us not forget that it is His ministry and not ours.
Please read these verses from Jeremiah, Chapter three and draw your own conclusion to what these verse mean:
3:1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.
2 Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness.
3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.
4 Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My father, thou art the guide of my youth?
5 Will he reserve his anger for ever? will he keep it to the end? Behold, thou hast spoken and done evil things as thou couldest.
6 The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.
12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.
13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.
14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
There are those who say that we serve a different God now than the God of the Old Testament. Nothing can be further from the truth. God never changes nor can He lie.
(Titus 1:2 KJV) In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
He is the same God who created the world and who promises us eternal life now and in the world which is to come and His Name is Jesus.
The Bible is full of illustrations of those who have failed miserably and yet were used greatly of an Almighty God.
Is God ever in favor of divorce? Read these verses from Ezra, Chapter Ten:
10:1 Now when Ezra had prayed, and when he had confessed, weeping and casting himself down before the house of God, there assembled unto him out of Israel a very great congregation of men and women and children: for the people wept very sore.
2 And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.
3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.
4 Arise; for this matter belongeth unto thee: we also will be with thee: be of good courage, and do it.
5 Then arose Ezra, and made the chief priests, the Levites, and all Israel, to swear that they should do according to this word. And they sware.
I heard recently on my car radio a well respected minister speaking about marriage and he said that: "No matter who the person is, no matter where they are from, no matter if they are Christians or not, even the wildest native from Africa who never heard the name of our God, if they were living together as a man and wife, that God has joined them together. You need to look no further than the above verses in Ezra to know that was not true.
Can a man and woman marry outside the will of God? Of course they can. Did God join them together? Of course He didn't. Don't blame that on God!
We make many mistakes in life; some hurt us more than others. The sin of divorce hurts so many and leaves innocent people wounded by the way. Many times there is no excuse but many times there are. We will not go into all the details of the causes, reasons or consequences of divorce here. The question was what I think about divorced pastors and that doesn't matter ... God knows.
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| Otmer Horn | |
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Aug 27 2006, 1:20 pm - Replied by: CStar
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| Bless God (Blessings come from obedience) and Be Blessed | |||
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Aug 27 2006, 1:36 pm - Replied by: gothicpunkchristian1
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I asked my youth administrator about this and now i understand but i want to thank all of your for helping me..
She said there are 3 types of unfaithfulness (i never would have thought of this) mental, physical, and emotional. so if he seeks something that you don't have, that's unfaithfulness because your only supposed to seek what your partner has not what she doesn't.. and most beatings are usually in that situaltion..
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| The Struggle Between Life and Christ | |
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Aug 27 2006, 2:41 pm - Replied by: CStar
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Everything you said, what you quoted from Scripture is Scripture...I can't and won't dispute it
In Timothy it describes what a pastor should be...and I believe it... Just my opinion, but how can a divorced man stand in the pulpit? A fisher of men, absolutely...a pastor?.....A pastor who is divorced would not have much pull in counceling a married couple who is having problems and looking to get divorced...this is sort of a don't do as I do, do as I say..There is much more power in the staying...How can one who walked through the doors of divorce, tell anyone, don't...God hates it! I have counceled many marriages, and have been in a rough marriage myself.No one promised me a rose garden, even though I expected it.....There is more power in my FORGIVING and staying than telling how I divorced, but don't you...I guess I do have a problem with it...No, I don't believe for a moment that it no longer makes you a Christian to be divorced, but leading a congregation?...I question that...I do not judge anyone who does get divorced...it is a tough road.. with all the temptations..and a world of quick everything. I guess I have talked with many who got divorced and wished they hadn't..and also soooo many that haven't and told how they could have and soooo glad that they didn't..Much divorce today is just a get-a-long problem...nothing that can't be fixed..with a little forgiveness or a lot...often I feel that people get divorced saying that their spouses sin is to great to be forgiven, or less than mine...and sometimes maybe it is.but according to Scripture sin is sin..the greatest of course is to not acknowledge Christ... anyway....The Scripture says, God will forgive us as quickly as we forgive others..I would never suggest a woman or man stay in an abusive situation..
I would recommend a definate separation and some heavy duty counceling..There are some just purposed to get divorced..When there are children involved,it sadens me sooo deeply...
I just don't think for the well-being of a congregation that a divoced person should represent God in the pulpit..it is a huge load to carry...being the shepard of the flock...Our example is the ticket...who are we really..God knows and judges our hearts...
Christ, after being beaten so bad that He was unrecognizable, made to carry the cross,then nailed to it..being totally inocent says "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"..and I say because if they did they would not be doing it...We reap what we sow...in life, which includes marriage...what we put into it..what are our motives, why did we marry..what and how deep are our convictions....will be the outcome..Did we just decide we don't really like that person, I think there are many times we all feel that we married the wrong person,marry someone else and find that all you did was change faces..well maybe..I think it is more on who we are rather than who they are.
Have you ever done a study on the commandments, forgiveness, obedience? I think to many Christians get stuck or stop with accepting Christ and going to heaven...once you accept Him continue your study..there is more..much more.. He wants us to be an example... for those looking for Him. Love does not know when it's been done wrong,(now that is a goal) forgiveness is mandatory...Loving unconditonally..He did not say He did these things from just Him to us, but so that we too would replicate Him...
Someone who has come from a divorced home has a much higher rate of divorce later than those otherwise...No doubt you agree with it, but I would hate to be the pastor that under a situation that someone in my congregation was using me to tell their children that Hey, Pastor so and so got divorced, it's ok....we'll be fine...being used for that senerio...ouch!
The price to pay is high, if one is willing to pay the price, go for it...(the price of any sin) (someones sin, usually causes divorce)unfortuetly we don't know what the price is until we get there, now do we...What I also know is that Blessings come from obedience....
Hey, what fun to share thought on such BIG issues...
Have an awesoome day!
cstar
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